Selling my personal book collection knitting, crochet and other craft books for CRAZY prices.

S1-E6 Gina Rockenwagner - Softhaus

by Saskia de Feijter on November 19, 2020  in a smaller lifea smaller life podcastpodcastS1-E6

 

https://shop.softha.us/collections/fresh-looks/products/maeve-belted-dress
One of Soft Haus' designs, click to go to the webshop

In this episode, you’ll hear from Gina Rockenwagner, a fashion designer who’s learned some valuable lessons in her career while working for big brands, designing, selling her knit patterns and eventually opening her own company. You will enjoy hearing this creative and motivated woman’s personal journey through design school, the fashion industry, various hobbies, entrepreneurship and now COVID, and you’ll probably learn something along the way!

We love Gina. Give her a follow on Instagram www.instagram.com/ and check out her beautiful website at https://shop.softha.us/ 

 

Gina in Peru
Gina at work on location
Gina in her home studio
With this podcast I want to take you with me on my journey to discover the answers to these questions: What do we buy, Where do we buy, Who do we buy from… Or don’t we buy at all but use what we already have? And how relevant is my job as a yarn shop owner selling people stuff when we already have more than we need? How can I make my life as an entrepreneur and textile crafter smaller and more relevant to these times?

Have a question? Want to leave a message? Click the voicemail tab on the right, or scroll down to leave a text message. I'd love to hear from you!

Find me at www.ja-wol.com and @jawolrotterdam on instagram.
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In order to make the podcast available to as many people as possible, here's the
transcription:



Saskia de Feijter  

Today I'm talking to Gina Rockenwagner. She's a fashion designer that works consciously on providing a wide range of bodies, with colorful and ethical fashion. She's such an inspiration, and I'm really happy to talk to her about her journey and the choices she's making in her business. Here's Gina. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Hi, Gina!


Gina Rockenwagner  

Hi, Saskia. So nice to talk to you. 


Saskia de Feijter  

It's so fun to talk to you. I can't believe that you're not sitting next to me. It really sounds like you are.


Gina Rockenwagner  

[laughs] I wish I was.


Saskia de Feijter  

So tell me where are you? Where are you talking?


Gina Rockenwagner  

I'm at home in LA. And, yeah! I'm just outside in my backyard. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Nice, it's beginning of the morning where you are?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yep. I have coffee and water and a project.


Saskia de Feijter  

Great! That's all you need.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah. [both laughing]


Saskia de Feijter  

I'm at the end of the day. Oh, not really the end, the beginning of the evening. So I'm nice and calm and ready for a good talk with you. I'm so happy you're here. And do you want to firstly tell me how you got where you are? In like big steps?


Unknown Speaker  

Yeah, sure. Um, well, okay... so... how I got here is, I was born. [chuckles]


Saskia de Feijter  

[laughing] Wait, how old are you?


Gina Rockenwagner  

I'm 32. Yeah so, my parents are pretty creative and they also they ran their own business. So I grew up in a restaurant, so that meant I was around a lot of, you know, creative and talented people growing up, who did all different sorts of things. A lot of people work in restaurants just to pay the bills, and they have other things like acting or writing that they like to do. So I was around a lot of creative people growing up. My parents also make things; my mom is a painter, and my dad does a lot of woodworking and is just generally super crafty, he comes from like a really industrious family. And, yeah! So I saw my parents making things all the time. And then when I was a young kid, like three and a half to four, I had a childhood illness. I had ulcerative colitis, so I had to be in the hospital, and I would do like a lot of projects to distract myself, because... I don't remember being in pain, but I remember being really bored all the time, because you're just sitting around. So I would do a lot of projects to like, distract myself. And then I went to a school that did like a lot of hands on learning, kind of like a Waldorf school. There was a teacher there who introduced me to embroidery and knitting and sewing. So, I started to do those things when I was a little kid, and I was also doing art all the time, from you know, a young age. So yeah, when I graduated high school, I went to art school in Chicago. I went to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, and I studied fashion design and fibers.


Saskia de Feijter  

So, you didn't go through some puberty thing where you were like, "No, I'm going to be a lawyer" because you were always so creative.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Um, there was a while when I wanted to be a doctor, but then I realized that the schedule is really demanding. I thought I wanted to be a surgeon because like, I have, you know, great fine motor skills. And I thought, "oh, that would be like a great application of my skills," but I always just loved making things and I thought that the responsibility of being a surgeon was kind of a lot, and also the schedule's kind of a lot. I wanted something where people's lives aren't literally in my hands to be my career. [laughing]


Saskia de Feijter  

[chuckles] Right. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah. So no, I never really had a period of like... my family was always really supportive of my creative pursuits, so it was just kind of normal to make things in my house growing up.


Saskia de Feijter  

That sounds awesome. So you went to art school? And then I majored in textiles or...?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, well, fashion was my major, and then I took a lot of classes in this department called Fiber and Material Studies. We call it fibers, for short. And in the fiber department, you can basically do anything, it's a very open-ended major. And then the fashion department was very, like rigorous and on a track. So I was a fashion major, but I always loved to take the fibers classes, because that allowed for, like, more freedom and experimentation and stuff. And yeah, I was just thinking the other day, how much I miss the ability to kind of just play with different mediums and fail at stuff and make bad work. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, just you saying that, like... 


Gina Rockenwagner  

I want to take on another, you know, another area. I would love to go back to making ceramics and stuff, that's something I did in school, but I just feel like I don't have the freedom right now to fail at something. I would want to hit the ground running, and I think I would get really frustrated. But yeah, that's what you do in school is like, you just try things a lot, and you fail. And so yeah, I really miss that. Um, but anyway... 


Saskia de Feijter  

I think I still do that. I still fail a lot. [laughing] But then, if you fail in lots of like, small things, then there's always something that kind of sticks, but it needs a lot of attention and time. And sometimes you just... you're not able to do that. Or like...


Gina Rockenwagner  

I feel like I have the threshold to tolerate it for professional stuff. Like, in what I'm doing to make money. I feel like I have the patience to do it because it's my full time job. But then when I go over to my hobbies and things that I do more for soul nourishment and  pleasure, I kind of don't want the frustration of failing.


Saskia de Feijter  

Wow, that's super interesting.


Gina Rockenwagner  

One example is like, so I love to cook, but it's not something that I do for money. So in the US, banana bread was like "the thing" everyone was making at the beginning of quarantine. Because it's, you know, homey and delicious and something we used to eat when we were kids. And I made two banana breads a couple weeks apart that were both totally raw in the center, 


Saskia de Feijter  

[laughs] 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Like totally, not even salvageable by toasting, raw-in-the-center banana breads. And finally, this week, I made banana bread that was cooked all the way through, and I just felt so good. Making the two failed banana breads just really crushed me.


Saskia de Feijter  

[laughs] But you did make the third one, though!


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, I did. [laughing]


Saskia de Feijter  

On your Instagram, I see these great baking things come by and I'm like, "Oh my God, this girl can do anything!" But it's nice to have a little bit of a deeper peek into that. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

[both laughing] Oh, yeah. No, there's definitely failed stuff that just goes in the trash once in a while, but I hate that moment. It's like the most... ugh


Saskia de Feijter  

I love it, though, that you give yourself that time and the space to do that in your work. Is it... How is that different?


Gina Rockenwagner  

I don't know. I feel like when you're when you're doing something to make money, you're kind of just forced to make it work and try everything that you can to make things work. And that involves failure sometimes. So when I'm doing new things, I try to keep it small so that if it's a failure, it's not like a catastrophic failure.


Saskia de Feijter  

It's it's interesting to think about because I think I work the other way around. I let myself fail much more and... no, that's actually not true. I'll have to spend some time thinking about this. It's very interesting. 


Saskia de Feijter  

So you have different businesses. You have like two? Or three? Different offices in...


Gina Rockenwagner  

Uh... Well, I have well I have like one plus, I guess? I have Softhaus, which is my company, and then I work for a yarn company called Nomad yarn. So that's not my company, but I do a lot of the heavy lifting for Nomad. Sometimes it seems like it's my company and I treat it like it's my company [laughs], because I think that's gonna make it successful.


Saskia de Feijter  

Absolutely. And, but also you make your quilts.


Gina Rockenwagner  

I do my quilts. I don't think of that so much as like a business pursuit, although sometimes I make money from it. It's more of like a artistic thing. I guess it kind of stems from like, my dad was a woodworker, so growing up, we had a lot of furniture that was art, that he made or collected, or like his friends made or whatever, so I'm kind of used to living with these functional objects that are art. And yeah, that's something I wanted to bring into my own home. Like every time we would need something, I would just try to make it. So the quilting was more of necessity thing, and then I just got really into it. And yeah, I had you know, fabric scraps lying around from making clothes. So it always was like, the perfect segue into making a quilt.


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, exactly. I actually own one of your quilts. And I love it. And I'm kind of like... every time, I'm torn between really using it and like, "Do I want to hang it on the wall or do I wanna use it?" ...and then our cats will lie on it, and it'll be full of cat hair. And I'm like, "Oh, no!!!! ...Oh, it's fine. It's fine. It's meant to be used and the jeans are already used, so that's great." And I already washed it, so it's become part of my life. And I really love how the literal layers are there, that it's made of scraps. And that it came all the way from where you are, I think at the time still in New York City, I guess?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yes. Yeah. This is a part of my story we didn't get to yet, but we'll get there.


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I just went right into it. So let's get back to where you where you are in art school.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Oh, yeah. So in art school, I met my husband, Alex. And when we graduated, well, I went home for three months with the promise that we would move to New York together. So I went home and I worked retail for three months before we moved to New York. And then I transferred my retail job out there, and I did that for a couple months, before I got a job at Pearl Soho, the yarn store. And I was working there for a couple months when I met a designer from Anthropology, the store where I worked retail for like a year. And she hired me to make some samples for a line she was designing for Anthropology. I made the samples and I brought them to her studio, and she gave me a job like, on the spot working as an assistant designer. And you know, I was like 23 and totally new in the industry, so it was just a really cool moment. It felt like..., such a nice moment. So I worked for her for about a year and then I worked for Eugenia Kim, the hat company, for like three years, then I went back to working for Pearl Soho and did a lot of patterns for their blog. But I feel like no one knows they're my patterns.


Saskia de Feijter  

Oh, that would be interesting to know which ones are yours because they've been knitted so many times. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

I know right? Like the classic cuffed hat I think has like 3000 projects--


Saskia de Feijter  

Oh my god [laughing]


Gina Rockenwagner  

--or something. And that's my project, so...


Saskia de Feijter  

So when you were at Pearl Soho you initially, you were selling yarn and later you were there to design?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, well, I worked for them twice. It was over a stretch of like five years. I worked for them twice. So there was a big gap in between. But when I was first working there, I was just cutting fabric and you know, helping people with their yarn and stuff. And I was making quilts at that time and also knitting a lot, so one of the projects that I knitted just because, actually made it to the blog. So I think that was like the beginning of them seeing that I could make patterns that people would really want to knit.


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah.


Gina Rockenwagner  

So then, when I had been working in the fashion industry for a couple years, I kind of wanted something more with a slower pace, so I went back to working for them. And I was just working on the blog at that point.


Saskia de Feijter  

And how did you go from that to starting your own business?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Um, I had been thinking about it the entire time I was working for them. And I kind of saw that as a good segue between working for other people and working for myself, because that's a job that is remote. You know, now everyone works remote, but back then, it was like more unique. [laughing] Um, we would just meet once a week to talk about the calendar and stuff and the rest of the time was basically like, you know, you just work on your assignments. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah. So, you know, I got a taste of like, making my own schedule and, you know, I got a studio at that point because I needed more space to work outside of my home. So it was kind of like a training wheels experience.


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, and I think a lot of people are like, "Oh, my God, Pearl Soho, that's like the center of centers of the yarn shop world." And owning a yarn shop, I know that sometimes it's much more glamorous on the outside than it is on the inside. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Oh, yeah.


Saskia de Feijter  

But it will totally learn you a lot, especially if you were also selling to people, and you're also on the marketing side of things, and you see the whole scope of like, a business.  What would you say is something you've learned from there that has helped you in owning your own business? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Probably, like, just the incredibly high standards that they have are really important, and also the consistency of the brand. I think that's something that I saw firsthand. How, you know, everything has kind of the consistent style and voice and even... you see a picture and you know it's Pearl, even if it doesn't have a label. And ultimately, just having a really solid vision that you really stick to makes it, I think, much easier for people to come on board. Because your values are kind of just out, front and center.


Saskia de Feijter  

Absolutely. And it's also kind of timeless, isn't it? Like things you that were, probably you designed, like 15 years ago, they still look fresh. I think it's really awesome, and it takes, literally, it takes balls to stick to your thing. And so from Pearl Soho, was it Poppy and Pima, your first business? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, I started as Poppy and Pima becuse they were the nicknames we had for my grandparents. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Cute. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

So I started it as that and people started to take to it really well. But when I moved to LA, I decided I wanted to have a little bit of a rebrand and kind of like, an identity shift.


Saskia de Feijter  

And can you explain what you were making and selling with these businesses? Like Poppy and Pima first and now it's called...? 


Gina Rockenwagner

Softhaus. So I was when I started the line I-- Well, to back up, I had worked with Peru for many years at that point. And I really liked how in Peru, they have a huge focus on not only the ecosystem and maintaining that, but also in the social side and giving back to their community and keeping things local, which I really like. So the first couple times I went to Peru, I just thought you know, if I'm ever going to do my own line, I really want to make it in Peru because I just love working here. I love the people and the product that they make, and it's just fantastic. So I knew I wanted to work with Peru, but a lot of the knits that I saw coming out of Peru, I noticed were kind of like, beige and just... not the customer that I really designed for. So I thought you know, here's an opportunity, there's a need in the market for sustainable and ethical knits that are colorful and fun and, you know, have a personality.


Saskia de Feijter  

It's cool that you mentioned that because that is actually one of the biggest things that I wanted to talk about. Lots of people think that if you have a brand that like, makes conscious and ethical choices, it is usually beige or green or burlap or whatever... cardboard. But you are like, completely the opposite of that in your aesthetic. It's so colorful, it's so unique. It's so full of character. And it is for a lot of like, a wide range of people. Can you tell me a little bit about your customers? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah. Well I feel sad that I'm not interacting with my customer more these days. I really miss doing the in-person events, like the craft fairs and stuff. It's just the best time to be able to meet your customer in person and hear what they love about the product- and what they don't. But we get to connect by email and social media and stuff. Yeah, I think a lot of moms buy my stuff. And we're now offering kids stuff, too. And we try to make things that are friendly for like, different sizes in the same person. Like if your weight goes up and down, because you're like pregnant, or breastfeeding or whatever. We offer products for those people. My weight fluctuates a lot, so I'm always, like, thinking about that when I'm designing clothes. Like, "Can I gain 20 pounds and still wear this same item?", because I feel like that's something that really adds a longevity and sustainability to your wardrobe; if it can accommodate different sizes. So that's something we're really conscious of. And I think that's why we get a lot of moms buying our stuff.


Saskia de Feijter  

It's so funny. I wouldn't think moms necessarily, if you look at the pictures, it looks really - not to say that moms are not young or anything - but it looks really fresh and young. And hip. Is hip... still a word? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

[laughing] Yeah.


Saskia de Feijter  

No, it's awesome. I totally like... I'm wearing something that's very colorful right now and our mutual friend Anne ------ has taught me a lot about color, how you feel happy wearing colors and everything. So when I went on your website, what I noticed was that you have a survey for your customers where you ask a lot about their information; what they like and what their preferences are... I just love that, I love that you make that connection, that you don't just make something that you want to make and then wait for somebody to buy it, but you actually have a conversation with the customer. There's a lot of attention for body shapes, as you said before, can you tell me a little bit more about that?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, so um, when I moved to LA from New York - I was living in New York for eight years and then two years ago I moved back to LA where I'm from - one thing about being in New York is that there's a really solid fashion industry there that's really established and I feel like that established industry means a really established mindset in terms of the product that is being offered. So I think that when I started the company, I was really thinking more about the straight sizes. Like when I started my line I was working with someone I went to college with and she was saying you know size small is going to be your most popular size, you're always going to want to order more of size small because you're going to have the most demand for that size. So we do our first production run with Peru and I order majority size smalls and then when the product comes in I, you know, I take my personals you know the styles that I'm taking home to wear. Of course, I'm not a size small, I'm a size large. So I take everything in size large and I start wearing it and taking pictures for Instagram and  posting them... and then I realize "Wow, everyone is seeing me wearing the size large and then they want to buy the size large," because they look like me and they see me looking cute and they also want to look cute. So, you know, that was a really interesting thing to realize, that we sold a lot of larges because that's the size that I wear. So then when I moved to California, I... I gained a lot of weight during the move. The lifestyle out in LA is like, very fit and active. And... 


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah? That's actually true? Because I never believe anything I see or hear, I always think it's just the movies or whatever. So but that's totally... 


Gina Rockenwagner  

No, it's real. It's like, yeah everyone has their activity or sport that they do, and we eat a lot of Farmers Market produce... So I had gotten engaged and started planning my wedding, so I thought, Okay, I need to go on a diet. And I did a diet program that is based in psychology so you have to do a lot of readings about the psychology behind your food choices and your activity choices, and you know, all these different things. So in doing that, there was a reading that I had to do about assigning moral value to foods, you know, you might eat a little serving of ice cream, and you might call that naughty. Or like, you know, if you eat, like, pizza and french fries, you might say, like, "Oh, I ate really bad today," and how assigning moral value to food and food choices and to weight and body size is really wrong. It's also  a hindrance in trying to be healthier and lose weight.


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, also for your mental health?!


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, exactly. So when I read that, it was like, a light bulb went off. Like: wow, it's not morally wrong to be fat. It's not morally wrong to eat ice cream, you know? And how wrong it is to assign moral value to those things, you know, because it's not a choice that harms someone. It's not something that's, like, morally wrong. So that was a huge mental shift for me to realize, like, "Oh, we have to really think about what we're putting out into the world, and what message that sends about other people's bodies, and other people's lifestyles." So, so then I got to thinking, "Wow, in not offering sizes that can accommodate different sizes of people, I'm really saying that it's wrong to be that size." Right? So that was a huge shift for me. And I just thought, like, that's not something I want to say. I don't want to say it's wrong to be that size, I want to serve those people. And I want to, you know, offer clothing options to people of different sizes. So I talked with my assistant about it, and she actually had the idea to do the survey because she wanted us to get a really good handle on the size of our customer and maybe we have this huge audience that we're not serving because we don't make a size for them. So that was the motivation behind the survey. It was to learn a little more about our customer, what they want and what they can't find.


Saskia de Feijter  

I just wanted to say that you actually have been an inspiration for me on exactly that part of fashion, like the inclusive sizes and everything. And it's amazing to hear that from the other side. It's something that you have had to learn and find out. For me, from the other side, I'm like, "oh, here's this lovely, pretty woman that looks so good in all her colorful clothes," It helps and it has helped to see people like you on Instagram and showing themselves looking awesome. I think the power of sharing that is much bigger than we think, and I just wanted to say thank you because you've been an inspiration and keep doing that.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Oh, thank you that's so sweet. I think I kind of underestimate the impact of things but you know, following influencers who practice body positivity and make that a huge part of their message has definitely just opened my eyes to the importance of self acceptance and how radical that is. I want to be a part of that in any way I can.


Saskia de Feijter  

Exactly and it doesn't have to be like, your main voice or whatever. It can just be there naturally and that is like such a positive message. I really love that about your whole brand and your aesthetic and the pictures of the people in your clothes on your website. It's all awesome. I wish you so much success with that and hopefully the shipping will be fast again soon so I can get some new clothes. [laughs]


Gina Rockenwagner  

Totally. 


Saskia de Feijter  

And this is where I come into another ethical question. I am plus size. I would love to buy only sustainable products, and I'm trying to do that, but it's really hard for me to find clothes that tick all the boxes. And then when I go online there's a lot to find, but it's not in the Netherlands. And that's fine. Because we live in such a small country, I think Europe to me is local enough, but if I want to order in America or in Australia or whatever, this product is going on a plane, and it needs to go in a van, and then... What are your thoughts about these kinds of things? Do you sell all over the world? Or is it more in the US or? And working with Peru is also... what is local? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

We were selling a lot in Europe and Canada, but now with the pandemic, it's really put a little bit of a hinderance on shipping internationally, especially from the US. So now I think that it's definitely become like more local and just more within the US. I'm trying to keep things small and keep the level of risk that I assume with the product and inventory low, because I don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. Right now we're working on a lot of styles that we're making locally from recycled fabric, but really what that is, is leftover fabric from other lines of production. We go and shop at a warehouse where we can buy mill ends, you know, the leftovers from people's production, or deadstock, which would otherwise be not used, or maybe thrown away or something. So we're using that material to make small production runs of our new styles.


Saskia de Feijter  

Sounds like you're reacting quite well to the situation right now. Is it? Like if something like this happens... not like you've seen this before,  but how would you say you react to stressful situations in your business?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Well, I think on the surface it probably appears like I get stressed out really easily. And I only know that because one time my old boss ran into my step mom at an industry event in New York and she mentioned that I get stressed out really easily. But I actually know that I make my best work under stress. So to me, it doesn't seem like a negative thing. I don't know, I'm just kind of a neurotic person, and I have anxiety, so I'm always like, hyper vigilant. And I can't really rely on anyone else. I just have to rely on myself and do whatever I can to make it work. I wouldn't say that I'm like, thriving in this new circumstance, but I definitely had my life setup before the pandemic in a way that I could just, you know, do my work, no matter what was happening on the outside. And I'm very fortunate that I could do that in a time when you know, we have millions of people unemployed in this country, literally. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, exactly. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

That want to work, but can't, so...


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah. So you work with a team? Do you...?


Gina Rockenwagner  

My team is very small. I have myself and I have an assistant and then my husband also helps us. And to make everything we have, just... contractors that we work with? So I guess those are like, players on the--


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, team. And you and your assistants do you communicate through zoom or whatever at this point? Or are you close to each other? And can you still meet?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, we can still meet; we work out of our house. We're keeping it very limited in terms of exposure and now she's able to come here. We have a room for her to work in. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Nice, Nice. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah. So we're just both being kind of like, like she's part of our pod. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Ahh, that's great, that you can still do the things you were doing before and still keep your business going.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, it's a relief, because... I just see with my dad's business, how hard it is to have people not working who used to work for you before and I'm really glad we can all... we can still work. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Yeah, gotta keep the boat floating until we can sail again. 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, totally. Exactly.


Saskia de Feijter  

So do you want to share with us where we can find your awesome designs and your social media?


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, so I have my business Instagram is @ soft_haus, and then I have my personal account, it's @GinaRockenwagner.


Saskia de Feijter  

I'll share it I'll share. It's an awesome account if you love cats, she has such a cute cat.


Gina Rockenwagner  

[laughing] Last night, I was like, "I should probably add something to my bio about how my stories are, like 80% cats."


Saskia de Feijter  

[laughs] Hey, Gina, thank you so, so much for sharing


Gina Rockenwagner  

Let's do a second chapter where we only talk about body positivity and plus sized fashion-- 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Can we do that??? 


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yes! I would love to because I've been thinking about it a lot. And I have a lot of ideas. 


Saskia de Feijter  

Oh, me, too. I have a lot of ideas and opinions. Well, I always have opinions, but... no, let's absolutely do that.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, it's my favorite thing right now. 


Saskia de Feijter  

[outro music fades in] I would love to. We'll talk, we'll talk. Thank you so much.


Gina Rockenwagner  

Yeah, thank you so much for having me!


Saskia de Feijter  

I loved talking to Gina. It amazes me every time that the world is such a small place that we can talk to each other from such a distance. As you heard, we could have talked about much, much more. She is also a spokesperson for the brand Nomad. They are a yarn company that works with ecological yarns, and we didn't even touch that. If you want to know more about all the things she does, you can find the information on the websites. That's www.ja-wol.com, and there's all sorts of info there. Hopefully we'll get her back one day to talk more. That was so fun. Thanks, Gina.



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